45 acp damage human body

45 acp damage human body

.45 ACP damage increased from 35-40-65 to 35-40-75, and minimum damage decreased from 60% to 50%. The one that traveled the furthest was looking back over its shoulder and was hit in the muzzle. It was by far the easiest serviced pistol in the field, go ahead and get the lighter frame lighter weight ceramic /plastic and all that junk its fine as long as youre in a urban environment. Shot placement?! Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Four ribs had essentially turned to dust. Is it comfortable for you to carry and shoot and are you accurate and reasonably quick in getting it from concealment to shooting? Your body will make the shot while your mind hesitates every time! Is S&W so inferior that our domestic brand was eliminated? American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. The SEALS sure like their 45 acp, Mark 24 pistols (HK45 compact). They are both capable of inflicting mortal wounds far beyond practical range. Not everyone is as capable or as comfortable at shooting a .45ACP as they are a 9mm. Its disturbing to me that we give up performance for comfort. and love a SA trigger. But according to the FBI (First Bunch of Idiots) it isnt possible. The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice! And let us not forget the adrenaline factor. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. But in the Kaos of combat (especially at dark:30) your intended target isnt usually going to present itself and just stand there for your perfect shot placement. The only reason law enforcement and, military use a 9mm is budget. 15 round mag of 9mm FMJ unless you hit the heart better plan on using 3 to 5 rounds to stop the person. and that the data you submit is exempt from Do Not Sell My Personal Information requests. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. Great little weapon !!! My partner and I got to the apartment and the door was open. Note that buying a handgun for personal protection is not an abstract desire. For almost 17 years that I carred a badge I carried a S&W 357 on a K frame. The objective of this study was to construct a Is the debate on 9mm vs. .45 (or .40) settled then? Gramins was using a 13+1 capacity Glock 21 in .45 ACP. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please fill out our survey about your experience after being shot. All studies are greatly flawed and there is no serious pursuit of better studies due to the enormous difficulty, if not impossibility, of scientifically analyzing real-life shooting incidents. I have not fired it yet but have dry fired it some to get back in tune. Against bad guys though, gimme a 45 auto. He was a deputy sheriff. As where the .45, would dislodge the silhouette every time with a single shot. Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy of the human body Wellcome L0024128.jpg 1,100 1,796; 960 KB. You get the idea. The best I heard about itcirca Desert Shieldwas that at least the guns werent beaten completely to death, badly maintained by armorers who were phoning it in, and handed out off the rack with worn-out springs and safety levers falling out, like the M1911s had been ever since after Korea. Take it from me, a physics major. The smaller size of the 9mm also allows for more rounds per magazine, as well as lighter weapons. The answer is Yes. I have never shot a people. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. There was no blood on the floor below him. What I find more often than not is, in cases of 9mm shootings, unless its a head-shot or perfectly placed shot to the sternum, victims rarely drop where theyre shot and are often found blocks away from where the original shooting took place police actually have to trace blood droppings back to their origin to find the initial crime scene. Somebody needs to vet their sources of information and also use a little common sense. If youve ever spent anytime shooting steel then you would know which one will take someone off their feet quicker. Space radiation is made up of protons and all the elements on the periodic table. One writer mentioned the old adage about wounding one and it takes two more to remove him from the field of battle. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. 45 standard velocity is 850 to 900 fps, NOT 500 fps. The expansive quality of these rounds creates larger permanent cavities. In fact, thats what civil liberty defense ammo is all about. Ammunition can really change performance. Maybe Obamas army should be issued paint ball guns so there is a non-lethal component too. I much prefer the 45 acp and have used it on game from deer to moose and it always was my go to gun. .380 9mm .40 10mm or .45 one well placed shot and dead nothing really better about each round besides power and penetration they all kill in skilled hands and do there job in certain situations there is no better round than the one you train with period! A 1911 in 9MM? I have been hand loading my rifle and pistol ammo since 1975. The 45 1911 did just that. Stay safe everyone, JP, first of all, Im really sorry you had to go through that. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. Platt was killed at the end of the gunfight, but not before unleashing deadly mayhem. Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. Skorpion Ammo Type: 9 mm. There is no substitute for experience. I know .45 is a good SD round against the two legged threats. For this reason, jacketed hollow point (JHP) ammo is the only realistic choice for those who carry a handgun for self-defense. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! So that is where the saying and belief came from. Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. ammo. In their book, Defense of Self and Others, FBI firearms training experts John Hall and Urey Patrick (ret. That will put anything down.But if it comes time to kill a man should there be any fun in it. By the way. Love it. Liver problems can also be caused by a variety of factors that damage the liver, such as viruses, alcohol use and obesity. If Agent Doves bullet had entered Platts heart, he would have perished quickly, before launching his life-ending assault. Fired expert m14. Yes, I know it was a +P round, but then, there arent any grizzly bears in my neck of the woods. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. 3 more replies -8w7- 13 hr. WebIn real life the tissue damage of the .45 compared to the 9mm is much more and ingame atm the difference is minimal. In 1985, the US military replaced the .45 ACP with the 9mm round for its standard sidearm. In my own personal EXPERIENCE the .45 tends to put the assailant down with ONE OR TWO rounds. Indeed, if 9mm used the same grain of bullet, the ft/lb and velocities are near-identical. If you are in the sixties o more 9 mm is the best choice. The results may surprise many as it did myself. Were they not the agency who got thier asses handed to them that created this debate in the first place? You might be able to talk to the first guy. Small, light, and more rugged than a lot plastic guns. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. Soldiers and police officers are far more likely to engage multiple targets in extended shootouts with adversaries, and therefore have a much greater need for a high capacity pistol than I will in a self-defense scenario. My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. They should provide officers who can control the larger weapons a choice about which pistol they are permitted to carry. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.. Oh boy, that could start a whole new area of discussion 1911 vs 1926, most common bullet weights, etc. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. But if stopping power is your only indicator of success in battle, then I suggest a WWII 16 inch navy rifle same as the Battleship Missouri ! WebThe.45 acp proved an effective round with greatly improved stopping power. I believe you are in some way getting a kick back from someone, wanting to push the idea that the 9mm is more affective than the 45. He gets there with his partner and the front door of the bus opens. Better get that imagination under control, tough guy! Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Battlestar Galactica. Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. A pistol just sucks in that situation. Well, depends on whom you ask. This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. You do your failure drill. Testing shows terminal ballistics of modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round. The only thing caliber has to do with it is 9mm is size efficient for capacity. Through and through shots were the issue and the 9 just bounced of bones and exited. Whether fear or anger, adrenaline can make one shake. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. The original design and purpose of the 1911 45, was perfect for its knock down power. Indeed, you and bystanders in the immediate area are much more endangered by rounds that do not penetrate sufficiently than by rounds that overpenetrate.. Most of the ballistic testing I have seen comparing the penetration of various bullets and calibers would suggest that generally, a .45ACP and 9mm are both quite comparable as far as penetration is concerned. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy Wellcome L0024127.jpg 1,080 1,787; 799 KB. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. And anyways I own a Kimber Colt 45 1911 with a muzzle breaker on it steel slide aluminum from and honey comb grips, I also own for my conceal Walther Q4 with tactical barrel. They ability to kill. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. thats a monster, 67 about 260 and has hands as big as a base ball mitt, when he carries concealed, he goes with a Glock 43 which looks like a toy in his very large hands. Practice thats all it takes. However, caliber is at least as important and should not be ignored when choosing a weapon. https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/, http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/, https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/, Victim Uses Awareness And a Gun to End Armed Attacker, S8E5: The Battle over Gun Registration & Assault Weapon Ban Rages On, Man Disarmed And Shot With Own Handgun in Parking Lot, Finally a Holster for the SIRT Pocket Pistol, Watch This Before You Shoot Your Pistol!! The 9mm isnt a garbage round but feeling better with these 230 grain Winchester Rangers loaded on my side. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. Government can spend less of my tax dollars (maybe. How about a test sample of exactly the same bullet weight in a high impact L.E. Before he did this there was almost as many different firearms within the department as deputies. A 9 is a great backup. Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. JavaScript is disabled. Thank you. Many factors, including the moisture content, knot content, tree age and even the separation of the boards, can give rise to highly variable results. Shot placement is not a variable, it is a constant. I have read how the 124gr 9mm ammo used by NATO does not do its intended job. Wondering if these Marine special operators are not only allowed but required to carry exclusively the 15-round Glock 19, why not the slightly larger and higher capacity Glock 17? Both are great calibers. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. They are a secondary source at best. Most people ask to be shot with the 9mm instead of the .45acp. Its all about follow up shots. This makes rifle rounds significantly more damaging than their handgun counterparts. Officer Needs Help!!! Rounds that do not hit the intended target are obviously more dangerous to bystanders than a round that hits the target. This is what can incapacitate a target, even with a poorly placed torso shot. G19 vs custom 1911 equals a big price difference. However, there are two factors virtually everyone agrees on: 1. Long time reloader right here as well which is why I couldnt believe when I read what I did in that other articleclearly someone that doesnt understand how these things work!! In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. Its only a pistol. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. He eventually was taken off life support 4 days later, open casket funeral. He kicked in the door and she was able to disarm him ( He was lying next to the bathroom door. Of course there are but in general the .45 with its bigger slower round is the better choice for knockdown power. Where the human component is a significant factor thats been deleted from so many test results. But I do like Cor- Bon, and Glaser POWRBALL BY COR-BON. The biggest determining factors were and have always been budget and of course, what the inept FBI is carrying. Hogwash!! Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. In each of the three most common law enforcement handgun calibers (9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .45 Auto), there are some projectiles that have a high likelihood of success for officers (i.e., all three are very effective). Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? WebActually, three different types of pressure change appear: (1) shock wave pressures or sharp, high pressure pulses, formed when the missile hits the body surface; (2) very high pressure regions immediately in front and to each side of the moving missile; (3) relatively slow, low pressure changes connected with the behavior of the large explosive If you find yourself in a legitimate self-defense scenario, you will likely not have the opportunity nor the wherewithal to take a careful and well-aimed shot at your assailant's head. I havent heard anything about the M17 yet, but I am guessing that people will say at least they arent completely worn out and rattling like a kids toy, with parts falling off them, like all the M9s were.. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. The bullet that struck U.S. Representative Steve Scalise last week was traveling at somewhere between 1,100 and 2,600 feet per second. Its hard for Civilians to understand the firepower of the Military & Police, and what they can choose to bring to bear on their target, but we are responsible for each bullet fired, as Civilians! Fire Rate: 240 So modern ammo IS NOT the reason to switch back to the 9mm. You have renewed my faith in man. Between 14 and 45 , flak jacket and 5 mag 20 7.76 stayed in shape. Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. My neighbor saw that the guy was afraid of the thing and couldnt get back on target after the 1st shot due to the recoil and his flinching with every shot. The reason they went over to the +P was to punch through windshields. It is also a logistics factor 45 is just one more different ammo to resupply. I have 9 mm and I own mostly 45 ACPs, I can conceal a combat Commander with a small of the back holster with shorts T-shirt and flip-flops and nobody will know its there. Both forget one major factor. The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. The .45 acp bounced off the helmet at 35 yards while the 9mm penetrated the helmet at an astonishing 125 yards proving that the 9mm with its higher velocity, flatter The bullet lands in the same place because the entire situation and milieu is what determines it. He didnt get more than three feet from the bathroom. Projectile weapons work by transferring kinetic energy to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. Sick and tried of people not in the field deciding what is best for those in the field. But the modern bullets are getting better all the time! So its definitely capable. In case you didn't get the memo, the FBI's ballistic testing labs are the best in the world, and they've been doing it for a long time. The reason is recoil. According to mamas statement, Papa got crazy and chased her into the bath room. Indeed, in some studies, such as one conducted by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA), the temporary cavity is assumed to be the primary handgun wounding factor. In most courtrooms today a good lawyer will take you apart for shooting a home invader more than one time if you hit him with the first shot in other words you wounded him with the first shot why did you keep shooting? For this reason, some dismiss magnum rounds altogether and sing the praises of the S&W .40 round, which supposedly combines the best features of the .45 ACP and the 9mm. Both really do not muster up for the Marines. This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. What I have found, is its a matter of preference. who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? I leave distinguishing the difference for law enforcement and military.In the moment of truth youre either going to hit properly or not. And speed kills barriers. We were allowed to carry bone stock ( night sights ok. weapon purchased at our own expense ) Smith and Glock 21s ( It was the 2nd Gen Glock era. In stark contrast, the vast majority of incidents involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP resulted in gunshot victims being DRT; they dropped and expired right where they were initially shot, even with imperfect shot placement. Im sorry but a 225 grain bullet going 850 1200+ fps vs a 127 grain bullet going 975 1150 fps is going to be more effective and deadly. The question isnt how many people die from being hit with a certain a round, but rather what do they do immediately after being hit?. If I ever have to use my firearm to defend myself or my family, I want all of the energy from that round to be expended in the target. In the technical language of ballistics engineers, the standard unit of measurement for a bullets mass is grains of metal, and depending on the manufacturer, a .7.62 can weigh in at 125 grains. True, Or not? Shot placement is the only thing that matters a perfect shot placement with a .22 gets the job done where a miss with a 50 cal just causes a little blood. Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. I just make it my business to shoot all handgun cartridges well out to 25yards. Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. Their explanation (other than increasing ammo capacity): bullet technology has come a long way since 1986. .45 ACP 10 Round Magazine mobility debuff removed, and .45 ACP 17 Round Magazine mobility increased from 96% to 98%. How does air resistance have ANYTHING to do with the terminal ballistics as they relate to penetration? I do not argue with this decision; however, I believe agents who can control the larger weapons/bullets without a problem should have the choice to carry weapons with the larger bullets. I have a medical issue that makes it easier for me to carry a double action in a very small package. I wonder what the future holds? Bowman, The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. As to which will stop a human fasterhavent a darn clue. Thanks. This whole conversation for over 2+ years is hilarious. Heck a well placed .22 in the head can get the job done. This is why, when training with a firearm, you should train for the center of mass, regardless of target anatomy or angle. But in summer I have just discovered the Sig Sauer P938, a 9mm 7+1 with extended magazine. Oh, and Sgt. Ask the Mafia. One of the techniques used by several mob hit men was to use a .22 caliber pistol placed in the soft spot behind and slightly belo However, for the civilian this is generally an impractical plan for a variety of reasons.

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