old belgian gun makers

old belgian gun makers

These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Chaumont M.J. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Sorry I can't be more helpful. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. There are a number of Bronne Gustave Bauduin Charles Bouquin Ad Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Bertrand Antoine & Fils On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum The Key Findings. thank you. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Bultot Jean CLEMENT, J. The blue is rough but the action works. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Counet Philippe After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Courard Wish I could be more helpful! Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Rich engraved. The "D.D. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Thanks! Boden The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Thanks Brandon. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . (copy right L.R. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Can anybody shed some light here? Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Chaineux J. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. . I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Tel: 01707 709372; BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. No maker's name at all. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Bovy Thodore Joseph A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Thanks. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. It is located just above the circle with ELG. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Sorry! This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. These include the The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. I have pictures If you need them. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. It was mandatory post-1924. Any info will help. Bertrand Joseph cases. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Cap Joseph As I've said, I'm not an expert. location, rather than a manufacturer. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Bernard Victor & Cie Closset Louis Quite old. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Burlet The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. carefully bound by threads. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Search. and an eagles head. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. This will be an on going Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? The book A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Marlin-Savage-Winchester The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: There's no indication of gauge. HI, John. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Consignment Sale Information. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Comblain I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Any idea what it all means? Beckers G. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. (most sales were in the 1930s). I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Brancquaert Louis The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. We have provided you Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Clment-Neumann . Jun 21, 2012. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Beuret Frres Dallas, Donald. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Berleur Guillaume Do you have any information on them? Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Proof Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Misc. This printed interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Bury Jules. weapon. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Can you send me some, Ed? On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Thanks Hause. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Thank y'all again! The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Collings Hadelin Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Serial Numbers. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. In addition to Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. 1860-1870. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Can be without star and ring. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. germanfest muenster, tx 2022, white stuff in tooth extraction site,

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